tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4718120950252476804.post2123339849573687964..comments2023-12-28T09:21:30.579-05:00Comments on Adam Holland: A response to Ron Paul supportersAdam Hollandhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06245468599571473818noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4718120950252476804.post-1554740866352311402009-12-23T03:36:53.730-05:002009-12-23T03:36:53.730-05:00BS"D
Adam,
Thanks for covering this. I am c...BS"D<br /><br />Adam,<br /><br />Thanks for covering this. I am concerned about the obvious tolerance of antisemitism at Liberty Forest and other Ron Paul support sites. The man ran for president, got a lot of coverage, and his ideas are attracting 20 somethings who are disaffected with the current two-party system. If Ron Paul doesn't take responsibility for the content at sites which use his name, I am very worried those same sites will continue to be used as seedbeds, turning previously normal, healthy people into antisemitic, conspiracy theory lunatics.<br /><br />I copied and saved most, if not all of the threads I participated in during my six month membership at Liberty Forest. They are revealing, to say the least.<br /><br />Ellie Katz<br />Glezele Vayneelyakatzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13326391985925438966noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4718120950252476804.post-84340850071010286092009-10-23T15:50:11.462-04:002009-10-23T15:50:11.462-04:00ok, this is moderated like that of which the O.p. ...ok, this is moderated like that of which the O.p. complains about? how fitting.lmao.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05178105824905921717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4718120950252476804.post-20198387877612269692009-10-23T15:49:11.041-04:002009-10-23T15:49:11.041-04:00anti-zionism is not anti-semetism, its not a race,...anti-zionism is not anti-semetism, its not a race, zionism is a well hidden supremisist belief of a divide and conquer mentality. mind you the campaign for liberty has fascist undertones that disturb me just as much as Obama's personality cult , or a neo-nazi skinhead movement, but i guess , pick your poison, people , the old system obviously is not working.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05178105824905921717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4718120950252476804.post-44432791324432720882009-10-23T15:39:47.332-04:002009-10-23T15:39:47.332-04:00isnt zionism , separate from semiteism? Zionism is...isnt zionism , separate from semiteism? Zionism is not a "race" , is it? i don't care , but this whole ad hominem ,"racsit" Crap is a weak arguemen , devoid of factual reciprocation. whatever , divide and conquer, we will all be slaves of these tyrants and this personality cult. enjoy the bondage and slavery, you've all bought into. keep it up.....wow.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4718120950252476804.post-10182908135644241772009-07-31T22:37:05.920-04:002009-07-31T22:37:05.920-04:00>It is about small government. It is about a sm...>It is about small government. It is about a smaller global military presence. It is about guaranteeing personal freedom and a free market in the economy.<<br />But the point is, is it about those things for everyone?<br />Or is it about those things for a select few?<br />The inference from the postings on that forum is that the "Joooooos" are behind all our problems, That the solution is to do something about the "Joooooos!!" and only then will we be able to have small government, smaller global military, personal freedom and a free market in the economy.<br /><br />Don't you understand that Dan, that there are postings on that board that basically say we can't have freedom because of the "Joooos!!!" because they are the ones keeping it from us.<br /><br />Where's the freedom in that?Oldguyhttp://www.outcastweb.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4718120950252476804.post-20136967014211712482009-07-31T00:56:17.557-04:002009-07-31T00:56:17.557-04:00Adam,
I don't quote you with disdain nor do I...Adam,<br /><br />I don't quote you with disdain nor do I object to you writing about anti-semitism. It's a bit of an odd accusation; you write about what is important to you. I think I understand where this blog is coming from now - when I glanced at the past list of your topics for this month it became clear that you are using it as a forum to attack those you believe to be anti-semitic. A simple point though it did seem to upset you. You think Ron Paul is an anti-semite. I don't think you need to dance around the issue in your replies; if that's what you feel then say it. <br /><br />I have attempted to answer your charges and/or questions in so far as one can in 4000 character blocks. I've discussed your continuing usage of "asserting the consequent". You use the technique<br />with frequency - it is the core rhetorical argument you make.<br /><br />So I got it. You did a search for "talmud" on the C4L site and you got thee (3) hits. One of which was this "Satanic" posting. "Illuminati" turns around sixty pages in a direct search on the C4L site. The same term turns up nine million hits on google. <br /><br />Of the one to two hundred thousand people who have joined C4L you've found anti-semites. Since you went looking for them in the first place that is not so surprising. There are anti-semites who like RP - and from that you conclude...what? The most serious anti-semite I know is a Democrat, a serious Christian, and a socialist. From that you conclude... what?<br /><br />If you go to a JCC and look for people who irrationally hate Arabs you can find them. You don't condemn the community because of that. That would be foolish. Similarly a reasonable person doesn't condemn C4L.<br /><br />Anti-semitism disgusts me. If you need to hear that directly, fine. RP's view is that "racism is an ugly form of collectivism" - see http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul68.html<br /><br />I am not worried about anti-semites in the movement because the movement is not about anti-semitism. <br /><br />It is about small government. It is about a smaller global military presence. It is about guaranteeing personal freedom and a free market in the economy.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13849152669006411218noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4718120950252476804.post-44122132416784761922009-07-30T10:27:16.552-04:002009-07-30T10:27:16.552-04:00Dan:
Thanks for your comment.
1) You quote with ...Dan:<br /><br />Thanks for your comment.<br /><br />1) You quote with disdain my post referring to the racist radio host James Edwards as a "Jew hater". That post did not deal with Ron Paul. As it happens, Edwards did support Paul for president and hosted numerous pro-Paul guests (such as Walter Block), but the post you cited did not concern this. Why do you object to my using that phrase? Do you object to my writing about anti-Semitism? <br /><br />2) You also say that I have accused Ron Paul of anti-Semitism, whereas all I've said is that his official websites contain hundred of pages of anti-Semitic material. Maybe you can tell me his motivation for allowing this. You should feel free to quote Paul's statements opposing bigotry. That might be a more effective argument for you to make than demanding that I do so. I'm not aware that fighting bigotry has been one of his big issues, but you seem to know of his record on the subject. Why not share it here? <br /><br />3) Why do you resort to inventing false quotes? Several of the direct quotes you attribute to me do not appear in this post or anywhere else on the blog. What's up with that?<br /><br />4) I cited the cartoon you posted comparing Republican Senator Lindsay Graham to Chairman Mao because it reflects your politics, not to make you seem "creepy", as you say. There's nothing wrong with my pointing out how conservative you are, is there? Do you think that being so conservative makes you seem "creepy"?<br /><br />5) In your earlier comment, you brought up the "Rothbard Defense" to show that Ron Paul has had Jewish friends. I replied to that by showing that Murray Rothbard had a troubling record of supporting bigots of various types including Strom Thurmond, Harry Elmer Barnes, and David Duke. That doesn't mean that everyone associated with Ron Paul agrees on these issues, and I didn't say that it does. Ron Paul has supporters who are much less bigoted than his mentor seems to have been.<br /><br />6) I don't refer to the Ron Paul website as "Satanic", that's a term you use to mock my concern. Frankly, Dan, that is ridiculous. The writings at issue promote bigotry and insane conspiracy theories. By characterizing this material with the term "Satanic" in quotes, you demonstrate that you don't really believe this to be a problem. Why not?<br /><br />7) If the administrators of the Ron Paul Campaign for Liberty blog and the Ron Paul Forums haven't already discovered that, over several years, their websites have published hundreds of pages of lunatic conspiracy theories, why on earth do you think a single e-mail from me will make a difference? If you want to do something about it, why don't you? You're a member of the group with blogging privileges. Why don't you take the appropriate action? Post something on the website objecting to the promotion of bigotry by your fellow Ron Paul supporters. That would do more for your cause than writing me to deny that this is important. (By the way, as you indicated, the websites don't seem to contain obscene material. I guess they are able to police that sort of thing.)<br /><br />8) You don't seem to want to address most of the issues I raised in this post, so let me cut to the chase. Why do you believe Ron Paul's websites contain hundreds of pages of material on Illuminati-Rothschild type conspiracy theories? Do you believe that is a reasonable thing for a congressman and presidential candidate to allow?Adam Hollandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06245468599571473818noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4718120950252476804.post-22817043091328443222009-07-30T09:24:00.110-04:002009-07-30T09:24:00.110-04:00Thanks for taking the time to respond to my commen...Thanks for taking the time to respond to my comments. At first I was touched that you had put so much effort into the reply. Taking a look at the list of your past posts tempered my enthusiasm - e.g., "Why doesn't RP come out as a truther?", "the Jew-hater", "stupid bigot tricks", etc. So this is what you do - you find people or movements that you believe are anti-semitic and "expose" them. And you've decided that RP is an anti-semite. I suspect that if I were to simply quote RP's own recent statements against racism that would not convince you.<br /><br />You're convinced that you're leading a crusade against a closet anti-semite. There's not much I can do about that. I'll make an attempt to answer the obvious question, as you call it. It's a bit difficult for me since I'm not actually a spokesman for anything or anyone but myself. I'm certainly not a spokesman for C4L.<br /><br />So you ask, "why doesn't C4L censor or ban anti-semites or anti-semitic comments on the forums?" <br /><br />But before I give what I presume is the answer I've two quick comments.<br /><br />On a personal note, you wrote "For those who want to read it, the Ron Paul Campaign for Liberty webpage of Dan Hansen, author of the comment this post replied to, is available here. It features a cartoon comparing Republican Senator Lindsay Graham to Mao." The way you wrote that last bit makes it sound kind of creepy about the cartoon; as if making fun of Lindsay Graham for his constant support of ever-increasing big government was somehow a bad thing. Lindsay is a big proponent of big government and he was in the thick of the bank bailouts. Perhaps the satire is a bit thick but I still think the cartoon is funny. <br /><br />Second, Rothbard may have been a self-hater; frankly, I don't know much about the man. I doubt that fits the profile of the average member who is interested in the politics of small government and free markets.<br /><br />Because at the end of the day that is what C4L is really all about. I know you've gone fishing for anti-semites but I encourage you and others while at the site to actually look at the Statement of Principles - http://www.campaignforliberty.com/about.php . <br /><br />Now for the answer. <br /><br />Again, I don't speak for the C4L site. But I would guess that the reason that this "Satanic" posting has not been removed or censored is that no one has complained to the staff about it. Looking at the "Content standards" page it is clear that C4L want users to "represent the campaign with dignity". Quoting directly:<br /><br />"The Campaign For Liberty strives to become a leading grassroots lobby at the national, state, and local level. The social networking tools that we provide are just that—tools....<br /><br />Clearly, it is important that our members and guest users represent the campaign with dignity....<br /><br />1. Obscene language is not allowed... Sensitive topics concerning race are not off-limits but should be handled delicately."<br /><br />etc, etc....<br /><br />I suspect that if you sent an e-mail to http://www.campaignforliberty.com/help.php detailing the complaint about the satanic references you could get some action. C4L is interested in growing the movement and not in alienating people.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13849152669006411218noreply@blogger.com